Curse

DrSLUGFly · Aug 19, 2005, 11:16 AM // 11:16

I just started getting into PvP after some 400 hours of PvE exclusive... and I'm hooked, totally addicted as though it were a brand new game! But I'm discovering now the reason why players want "unlock all skills" and also why they want to do away with refunds. It's only in very specialized teams that you don't have to change your skills every time you go in, and often rather than ditch a player cuz you need room for a different class it's easier and better for the group for one player to change their class and focus. PvP players are changing their builds, their classes (primary and secondary) and their attribute focuses constantly.

A minor and easy solution (for me anyway) would be to give us a sort of "fake" experience for PvP kills. I'm level 20 killing level 20's. For every player I kill pls give me about 75 of this "fake" exp. It wouldn't go towards a skill point but only towards the next refund point. So every PvP win would grant me another 4 (and almost 5) refund points.

wheel · Aug 19, 2005, 11:23 AM // 11:23

refund points need to be done away with completely. they serve no purpose other than artificially make the game take longer than it needs to. a fix to make unlocking skills take much less time would be to increase faction rewards by 37x

KelvinC · Aug 19, 2005, 02:19 PM // 14:19

I think refunds points in PvP serves no purpose. It just discourage people to change their strategies while using a PvE character to PvP.

The restriction should only applies during the instance, while they are at outposts, they should be able to change attribute points freely.

Teh Pwnerer · Aug 19, 2005, 05:53 PM // 17:53

the reason there is refund points is bc it discourages players from using their pve characters in pvp. personally i would never play with a pve player in pvp simply because well, theyre weapons usually suck, armor sucks and simply they just stink. if u know what build u are making log out and make the pvp character that u need. an increase in faction gain lowers the reward for being good in pvp. if gw were to increase faction gain anyone could unlock the best items.

Warskull · Aug 20, 2005, 03:51 AM // 03:51

The only function refund points serve is to limit how often you can change your points in battle. They should be changed to this:

In towns you have infinite refund points, in PvP matches you have no refund points. In PvE outside of towns you have 5 refund points (to tweak as you go.) You get a point back every 300 exp and always start with 5 when you enter an area.

Sayshina · Aug 20, 2005, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh Pwnerer

the reason there is refund points is bc it discourages players from using their pve characters in pvp. personally i would never play with a pve player in pvp simply because well, theyre weapons usually suck, armor sucks and simply they just stink. if u know what build u are making log out and make the pvp character that u need. an increase in faction gain lowers the reward for being good in pvp. if gw were to increase faction gain anyone could unlock the best items.

If the only reason you win is because you have the best items unlocked, and if you fear not being able to keep up once the "anyones" manage to unlock the best items, what does that say about just how good you are?

I've said variations on this many times before, but the point stands. Pick a sport. Sure, there are variations in skill, and the Patriots are flat out a better team than most of the opposition. But none of those other teams are required to unlock the press coverage skill, nor are they restricted from using the 3 receiver set because they havn't unlocked it yet.

Many will say this is different, all MMO's work this way. Fine, you're so desperate to make this into yet another MMO (the lightest weight MMO ever made, why would you want to make that?), just realize that it's guys like the above who are demanding the game keep going down the toilet. They NEED to have an advantage over other players, or they can't win. This is why they get snotty about people unlocking skills they didn't "earn". They don't want to play on an even field.

There is no more important element to competition than the concept of the equal field. Without it, there is no competition. This is why most of the better guilds have abandoned the game. there is no such thing as balanced competition in this game.

dargon · Aug 20, 2005, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Heh, taking your football analogy to the extreme. Lets say the QB on the cowboys figures out a way to throw the football such that he gets a consistent 20 yards further each time he throws it. Do you really think he's gonna tell every other QB out there how to do it, or is he going to let them figure it out on their own through whatever means they might have (video, practice, etc). I take my PvE character into the random arena and I consistently get a win roughly 60% of the time. I take my PvP character into the arena and use the same build, but with not quite as good equipment unlocked (7/10 sundering, +4 armor bow, etc) and I still win the same ratio. Equipment and skills help, but they aren't the end all be all, in the end it's how you use what you've got. Having elites is nice, but if you don't know the best way to make use of them, you may as well not have them.

Phades · Aug 20, 2005, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Trudging out in the random areas and capture an elite skill does not magically bestow the knowledge of how and when to use it properly.

EmperorTippy · Aug 20, 2005, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Hey to be fair I use my PvE chars in PvP a lot. I have all six of em maxed and have every secondary trainer doen for al of em. It takes me about 2 miniutes to change my build to any thing you could want. I also have the best weapons in the game on all of em and a few taht you can't get anymore (was there in release but it was taken out for being overpowered). I can switch armor if I have to and I have even gone so far as to use refund points to improve my build during a match.

Now I also have 2 PvP char slots so w/e. I don't really care either way. To be perfectly honest I think that for PvP you should get 1 thing unlocked per win no matter what the PvP arena is be it HoH or random. But again it doesn't really matter to me one way or the other.

Kazahana · Aug 20, 2005, 09:49 AM // 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by KelvinC

The restriction should only applies during the instance, while they are at outposts, they should be able to change attribute points freely.

i like this way theres nothing worse then being on a necro and cant switch to blood to be a support caster when you have all your points in curses cause you need 10 more attribute refunds that took like an hour to get em

Edge Martinez · Aug 20, 2005, 10:15 AM // 10:15

I'll agree with Slugfly. I also started PvP for real a few weeks ago and I think I could play this game forever now. I think for PvP all skill should be unlocked, and refund points should not be a factor, but at this rate I'd settle for either one. I don't have much trouble integrating with a team as I play a bag of tricks mesmer, but I sure would like to be able to switch my monk from protecting to healing, or my warrior from axe to hammer as the situation calls for it. Right now we're kind of pigeonholed into one thing.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Aug 20, 2005, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh Pwnerer

the reason there is refund points is bc it discourages players from using their pve characters in pvp. personally i would never play with a pve player in pvp simply because well, theyre weapons usually suck, armor sucks and simply they just stink. if u know what build u are making log out and make the pvp character that u need. an increase in faction gain lowers the reward for being good in pvp. if gw were to increase faction gain anyone could unlock the best items.

Wow you sure made a lot of dumb generalizations there. You could make an argument that the PVE players knows his character better than a guy who just created his PVP character.

Oh and your typing sucks. I'd never play with "u" because you can't even bother to type the entire word "you" and you simply stink.

Kai Nui · Aug 20, 2005, 12:44 PM // 12:44

It really just sucks because with PVP your exp goes towards skill points when it should be going towards more faction. Refund points are completely useless and make it a pain. I hate so many things about this game, but if they just fixed the minor things (or not so minor things) then maybe I'd enjoy it.

EDIT!!!

Only advantage to PVE is you can refund all secondary class skills for free by going all the way to certain places in the desert and swapping out. I use this commonly and would just wish that refunds only applied outside and not inside when you change your skills around.